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Laurence BonJour's avatar

A really, really excellent account of what is fundamentally at stake in this election. I think there are many, many other reasons why no sane and responsible person should be even slightly tempted to vote for Trump, but this piece captures the most central and important one with great cogency.

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Joe Denver's avatar

First off, I don’t care who wins the US presidential election. They’re all evil in my book. And picking sides, and getting involved in politics, just predisposes one to irrational and unclear thinking.

However, I think it’s very important to point out that 2020 was the very first election in my lifetime, where many votes were not cast in person, and instead cast via mail-in, which had previously been reserved for overseas veterans and the like.

This, in itself, was a change in the norms of voting. And did benefit the democrats (Trump was leading early in the 2020 election specifically because republicans were more likely to go to the polls, whereas mail-ins took longer to count).

So all of the actions and complaints that republicans are making, should be considered in that context. Namely, you had a huge change in the norms of voting, which benefited the democrats, which (in my opinion) does justify some amount of complaint.

This doesn’t mean that there were a lot of fake votes, or that the election was fraudulent. But large changes in, even implicit, norms around institutions does justify complaint. And I think many democrats do underestimate how easy it is to tamper with mail-in votes (I could have easily disposed of, or even falsely used, my wife’s ballot without her ever knowing). And even worse, mail-in ballots lowers the quality of the median voter, which in our world benefits democrats. A point that I would have thought Huemer would be concerned about.

And, just to be clear. I’m not saying that the reasons for the large change in norms was insidious. COVID panic was still in full swing. An argument could have been made at the time that it was better for everyone to stay home and mail-in their ballots.

Nonetheless, that is still a change in norms. And changes in such norms are themselves dangerous. And I think a lot of Trump’s actions actually do make a lot of sense, once you realize the context under which things were happening.

With respect to Michael’s claims of Trump’s misbehavior in section 2b. Here are the counter-arguments:

1) The Georgia phone does sound a bit like a mafia boss ordering people with plausible deniability. Or, it could have been just Trump telling Raffensperger how many votes they needed to win, in a tight election, with a lot of late-counted mail-in ballots. It’s tough to say.

2) There is a draft executive order to seize voting machines. But the key word there is “draft”. It is unclear, and perhaps just unlikely, that Trump had anything to do with the order. More likely that someone in his administration was upset, and wrote the draft without thinking. Trump never signed it, nor is it clear that he was even aware of its existence.

3) It’s not clear that Trump had anything to do with the fake electors. These totally could have been, and again, likely were, independent actors. After all, if you were from a swing state, and you thought that the election was fraudulent (perhaps you saw several associates cast mail-in ballots for their elderly grandparents and thought this was a common occurrence), and believed in the legitimacy of the US system, wouldn’t correcting this fraud be the right thing to do (I’m not saying it is, just trying to get you into other people’s mental states at the time)?

4) I haven’t seen evidence where Trump pressured Pence to do anything on January 6th. Though, I’m open to evidence. He did make a bunch of claims about the process which are not true, or at least the constitutionality is unclear. But this makes it seem like they met in a back room, and Trump threatened Pence, which is just not true.

5) Trump did not incite a mob to riot. A fact I learned fairly recently: Trump’s supposedly inciting speech was made, several blocks away, while the break-in at the capitol was already happening. Trump must be a wizard, because it’s tough to incite a riot, in a different place and location, while the riot is already happening. Not to mention that, while his statements are bombastic, I don’t personally think they qualify in any sense as inciting-to-riot. And Trump was careful enough to tell people to be peaceful, and tell them to go home when it was clear what was happening.

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